OLD CARS WEEKLY INTERVIEW
Dear Ken, I met a fellow [must have
been Richard Penaluna] last weekend at a car show who
displayed a 1919 Scripps-Booth touring car. I plan to
write an article about it for my editor at OLD CARS
WEEKLY in Iola, Wisconsin. Anyway the car owner gave me
your address and showed me a copy of the S-B Register.
I would like to include in my article
some information about you, how you got involved with
the Register, and perhaps a few comments about the
helpfulness of this “list”, maybe a few examples of how
collectors have found cars/parts they needed through
your efforts with the Register.
I will include information in my
article how readers can obtain copies of the Register –
how would you like me to do this?
I have found the Register and quite a
bit of information on the Internet about S-B cars. So I
will include that re-source also.
May I mention the museums listed in
the Register where Scripps-Booth cars are currently on
display?
I look forward to hearing from you
ASAP, and will send you a copy of my article after it
appears in OCW.
Sincerely, Marian Dinwiddie –August
31, 2000
OCW INTERVIEW RESPONSES
Dear Marian, Thank you for your
letter concerning your future OCW article on
Scripps-Booth.
The Scripps-Booth Register was
purposed by Ledyard
H. Pfund in fall of 1981, with issue Number 1 mailed out
in January 1982
with 15 known cars. T. Scripps Downing took over with
Register Number 3
in March 1991 after Ledge death. Both these gentlemen
completely restored
and were owners of 1916 Model C Roadsters. I was given
all of Mr. Downing’s
extensive files by his wife after Scripps death and put
out Register Number
9 in July 1996. At that time the Register had grown to a
10-page newslet-ter
with 40 known cars. For the last three years, the
Register has been printed
on an annual basic in December and runs 6-8 pages.
Currently there
are 54 known cars, and the Register is sent out to 45
owners. There are
owners in Australia, Canada, Chile, New Zealand, and
Norway.
The Register is sent out free to
current Scripps-Booth owners and also to the AACA and
NAHC Libraries and the Cranbrook Archives. Register
Number 9-12 can also be found on my Scripps-Booth web
site which can be found with most search engines. It is
plan to add Register Number 1-8 in the future on this
web site. To respect owner’s privacy, only the names
and web pages of muse-ums that have Scripps-Booths are
listed on the car
Register. However, both the Car No. and engine serial
number, if known, is
reported. The Internet has been the biggest help
recently in finding new owners
for the Register.
While I don’t own a Scripps-Booth, I
have been inter-ested in the Scripps-Booth company and
its cars since first reading about them in the mid 60’s.
I bought my first old car at age 18 in 1962, a 1927
Chevrolet Coupe, and shortly joined the VCCA (Vintage
Chevrolet Club of America) and read about Scripps-Booth
in the club maga-zine, the Generator & Distributor.
The 1915-18 Scripps-Booth are recognized by the VCCA in
its Forerunner Class, since Chevrolet owned
Scripps-Booth in 1917-18 before transferring the company
to General Motors in August 1918.
So for the last 35 years, I have been
looking to buy my Scripps-Booth dream car, a 1917-18
Model G Roadster that has the well
engineered Mason/Chevrolet built engine and transmission
combination. I almost
bought a Model G in the early 70’s in Pennsylvania, but
bought a 1970 Corvette
Roadster instead. During the last twenty years my
interest has shifted away
from the later 1925-28 Chev 4’s (had and sold 6) to the
pre 1919 Veteran
Chevrolets and since 1985 have been the VCCA Technical
Advisor for the Whiting,
Little, Monroe, and pre-GM Scripps-Booths. I
corresponded with both Ledge
and Scripps before they died on Scripps-Booth matters,
often swapping copies
of literature and other information. I currently own two
restored Veteran
Chevrolets, a 1912 Model Little 4 Run-about and a 1918
Model D5 “Eight” Touring.
I also maintain car and owner Registers for these Little
and D models. I
think the Model G Scripps-Booth would make the perfect
car to drive for the
VCCA Annual Chev 4 Tour the last week in June each year.
Yes, you may mention the museums that
displays Scripps-Booth, but be sure the Detroit
Historical Museum gets credit for owning the 1912
Biautogo and 1914 Rocket that is loan to the Owls Head
Museum.
Yes, while I don’t receive a lot of
feedback from own-ers on buying parts found in the
newsletter, there has been some that I have printed. The
most recent success story, is non-owner Tom Booth, James
Scripps Booth grandson, acquired this summer a 1916
Model C Roadster from an owner in New York. Tom also had
been looking for the right car for many years.
Enclosed is the last Register Number
12 which gives you some idea of the “news” I report on.
You can use anything except the owners’ names and
address from the last page.
Thank you for your interest. Regards,
Ken
ODDBALL CARS ADD SPICE TO CONCOURS, DETROIT NEWS By
Richard A. Wright-August 11, 1999
One of the joys of the Meadow Brook
Hall Concours d'Elegance, aside from the great featured
classics such as Packard and Bugatti, is seeing unusual,
very rare and even oddball cars you would probably not
see at most shows.
An engaging eccentricity marked the
automobiles built by James Scripps-Booth, of the family
that founded The Detroit News, the Scripps-Howard
newspaper chain and the Booth Newspapers chain. A 1919
Scripps-Booth was displayed by Maggie and Bob Allesee,
of Bloomfield Hills.
Scripps-Booth's first effort, the
1913 Bi-Autogo, was a strange machine, basically a body
with wheels front and rear and two on the side which
retracted after the car picked up speed. It was featured
in Ripley's "Believe It or Not." It was powered by the
first V-8 engine built in Detroit.
Scripps-Booths were produced from
1913 to 1922, although Scripps-Booth resigned from the
company in 1916 after it was acquired by William Durant
and merged into Chevrolet, which later became part of
General Motors. GM phased out the Scripps-Booth in 1922.
1919(?) SCRIPPS-BOOTH IN AUSTRALIA
Hi, my name is Jon Higlett from
Sydney, Australia.
I was speaking to my father last weekend about cars and
the Internet (as
you do) and I spoke to him about the old car we used to
have in our back
yard for many years. It was a Scripps-Booth 1919-1920 (I
think). I told
him how easy it was to search for things on the Internet
and I told him
I would search for anything on Scripps-Booth - hence
this correspondence.
I regularly search for veteran and vintage car info. as
I am an old car
'nut'.
We have a couple of regular car meets
in Australia
that attracts thousands of special interest cars, but I
have yet to see
another S-B.
Reading through your newsletter, I
realized how rare these vehicles are. I have photos of
Dad's old car, just as he was giving it away, back in
the 70's. I was devastated, as I saw it as 'mine' and I
wanted some day to restore it - maybe I would still be
doing so, given it's
rarity.
I would really be interested to know
if this vehicle has been restored, but from the info.
I've read in your news-letter, it
doesn't seem to appear that way. It had a six cylinder
engine and a flat
radiator, wooden spoked wheels and solid tyres (I
remember, because I started
restoring it by removing one of the wheels and sanding
back the spokes -
I also removed the tyre). It had no body, just the
bonnet and the firewall,
instrument panel and the base for the windscreen. It was
given to my dad
by Ben Bronk - who had a magnificent collection of cars
and a museum in
Watsons Bay in Sydney. Sadly, he passed away a number of
years ago.
When my Dad gave it away, I kept some
bits. The speedo, ammeter, oil pressure guage, the badge
from the radiator, and the radiator cap, which has the
twin 'bones' plus a very proud looking eagle on it
(about 120 mm high with wings outstretched). I will have
the photos I have scanned and send them to you, if you
are interested, I can also take photos of the 'bits' I
have at home. My Dad also remembers whom he gave it to -
somewhere in the bush, Forbes or Parkes, I believe. I
will confirm this for you too.
I would also be very interested to
see photos of similar models. The web sites I can find
seem to only have photos of the vee-radiator models -
which I didn't even know existed until a couple of days
ago.
I will forward the info when I can -
soon, I hope - in digital format for your records
(Sorry, I don't have engine Nos., VINs etc).
Looking forward to the next yearly
report. Cheers,
Jon Higlett -February 8, 2001 Email:
higjon@northsydney.nsw.gov.au
STERLING ENGINE IN NEW ZEALAND
It just so happened that my dad,
who's owned a 1928 Ford Model A since 1962, used to
scrounge around the farms of rural New Zealand pulling
stuff out of macro-carpa hedges and squirreling it away
in his basement to use as swaps for Model A stuff.
Things like an engine for a four-cylinder FN motorcycle
(fabrique en Belgium), crankcases for a 1914 Premier (a
marquee only ever produced for three years), and lots of
car stuff that I could
never recognize. Most of it he sold off during a family
financial crisis
in 1976, but in later years he still had a Scripps Booth
engine as fitted
to a rare Model-T-lookalike American car called a
Harvard.
Urged on by my mother, who was
forever barking her
shins on it every time she squeezed through the basement
door, he allowed
me to advertise this engine in New Zealand's own classic
car magazine "Beaded Wheels". A pair of gentlemen from
Horowhenua duly materialized at my back door one evening
to announce that they owned and were in the process of
rebuilding one of only three Harvard cars still extant
in New Zealand.
When you're dealing in stuff as rare
as engines for Harvard motorcars, the negotiations can
go one of two possible ways. Either the purchaser is so
desperate to have your engine, because it's so rare,
that they'll pay any price for it. Or they point out
that the market for such engines is incredibly tiny, by
virtue of these cars' very rarity, that in fact it’s a
buyers' market and really I should just give them the
motor and be thankful they don’t charge me cartage to
take it away. Naturally these two
Harvard fanciers adopted the latter negotiating
strategy. But I neatly circumvented the sordid business
of trying to put a cash price on a 1917 Scripps Booth
motor by telling them they had to go straight back out
into the darkness and find me an Ariel motorcycle frame,
regardless of cost.
Two weeks later they arrived at my
back doorstep with a 1937 Ariel rigid frame.
Who got ripped off here, them or me?
I'll let you be the judge. I was happy, anyway. I'd got
my Ariel frame and besides, there's not a lot of call
for Scripps Booth motors in our household.
THE HARVARD CONNECTION
I found this above interesting tale
on the Internet but loss the web page or whom the author
was to give credit.
The 1915-20 Harvard was a light car
built in New York with RHD steering for export primarily
to New Zealand. It used the same OHV 120 CID Sterling
engine as used by Scripps-Booth with the same engine
serial number sequence. The other companies that also
used this Sterling engine
includes Monroe, Sterling-New York, Cornelian, Fostoria,
and Stewart Truck.
CLUTCH THROW-OUT BEARING ADJUSTMENT
My 1916 Model C has been running fine
and I have been driving it around town. Last Saturday
the clutch stopped working and I could not shift gears.
I was able to shift into first gear with the engine off,
and then I started the car and drove home. I got lucky
on the traffic lights because I did not stop until I got
home. By then the car would not start again.
.
When I examined the clutch it looked
like everything was OK except the throw out bearing was
unscrewed from the back of the clutch plate hub. It
screws in easily enough but I cannot see what keeps it
in place. Is there a clamp missing from the shaft or is
there some other way to keep the bearing in place?
I do not have any drawings that show the clutch
construction.
I am hoping to get the car back on
the road in time for the Woodward Dream Cruise that
takes place on August 18. This is
the biggest old car event in the area. Any
help provided would
be welcome. Tom Booth - August 7, 2001
Hello Ken, Thanks for the
information. For some reason, the illustrations
did not come through the email and cannot be displayed.
I am glad the illustration I sent could not be opened
because I realized later that the throw-out bearing
would not work at all with a clamp where I showed it.
Lock wire? I did see a small
hole on the rear face of the bearing race. That
must align with a hole in the clutch hub. I can
not think of any other place for a lock wire. I
will take a look again tonight. Thanks again, Tom
Hi Tom, I now have attached the two
clutch images as .jpg files that might be easier for you
to open. There is not much on the lock wire except there
appears two different sizes listed - with the smaller
size used to fasten the bearing. Ken
Hello Ken, Thanks for the
illustrations. The throw
out bearing on my car seems to match the drawing but I
cannot find a place
for the lock wire. Maybe I could if it was out on
the bench but I
am trying to do it in the car. I tightened the bearing
by hand and took
it for a ride today. I probably shifted 100 times and
then checked the bearing
when I got home. It had loosened about one full turn. I
think I will try
Lock Tite next. Best regards, Tom
Thanks for update Tom. Could be the
replacement bearing that is in your car never was
drilled for the lock wire either? Ken
I HAVE THIS CAR IN MY YARD
Hi, my name is Shelley Facey. I have
had this car in my yard since I don't know how long!
Anyway I have been trying to find out what it is? So the
only numbers I could find on it were; on the frame by
the back passenger side, oval metal plate that reads,
Oakland Motor Car Co.,
Pontiac Mich. USA, Model 34-B, Car No. 37530?4, and
under the passenger seat
a plate that reads; All Steel Body with Pat. # from
1915-1917. On the steering
box; Jackson-Church Wilcox Co., Saginaw, Mich. USA, Pat
# ch 17 1903. On
the front axle; 190776-WMC6125 KA-B7. That’s all the
number I could find
on it. If you could help me find out what it is or
someone who could? I would
really appreciate it. Thank you, Shelley August
03, 2001
Email: gripps@sisqtel.net
Hi Shelley, Car No. 3753034 indicates
this is a 1918-9 Oakland Model 34-B Sedan. The last two
numbers [34] stand for the Model 34 which was built by
Oakland be-tween 1916 and 1922 with the [-B] models
coming out for 1918-9 starting at 3000134 to 11644034,
Does this car have an engine? It should be an OHV Six
cylinder built by Northway – another GM division. It
should start at C-1000. Regards Ken
No, there is no motor, and no front
axle. It has been sitting for I don't know how
long? There have been people wanting to buy it? I
have no idea what it is worth? Or if it is worth
anything? Do you know where I could find
out? Thank you so much for the help. Shelley
Does it have a complete body or is
this just a chassis? It must have a front axle because
you listed the WMC Weston Mott Co model number - do you
mean rear axle. Does it have a transmission and wood or
wire wheels? To give you and idea of valve - I sold a
1926 and a 1928 chassis complete with engine and wheels
for $750 each - the 26 going up to Washington State and
the 28 going to Arizona - a few years ago. Ken
Hi Ken, it's me again, sorry, it does
have a front
axle! It's the rear one we don't have. Its body is
complete, except for
the hood and front grill, no trany, engine and only 2
tires (wire)! The
body is in good shape just a little rusty; it's a
4-door.
What kind of trany did it have in it?
I think we have the rear axle laying around here I just
am not sure what kind? There is so many old cars
& parts here I probably have all the parts but for
now that’s all the car has on it. Thanks again, Shelley
Hi Shelly, the transmission is a
3-speed that might be still attached to the engine
somewhere? You should be able to recognize the rear axle
since it would have match-ing wheel hubs [and the wire
wheels?] to those of the front axle. Do the front
hubcaps indicate the wheel manufac-ture? Like Houk or
Wire Wheel Corp of America? Does this car have a spare
wheel carrier for the spare wire wheel? If you have a
set [5] of good wire wheels, hubs, spare tire carrier,
and hub caps – this Houk wire wheel set might be worth
more [around $2000] that the rest of this Oakland. To
give you some idea of value, I sold a 1928 Chevrolet
Coach 2 door that was complete with a rust free body but
need new wood and a full restoration a few years ago for
$1500. Hopes this helps - Ken
1922 SCRIPPS BOOTH DaVINCI NEW OWNER
I recently purchased the daVinci from
the Northwood Institute. I would like to join your club,
my contact info is below and I
have a website at
http://www.4stargallery.com/mycaraddiction at
which there is the beginnings of a page on the car.
Thanks, Shawn Miller, Indianapolis, IN
smiller@searchforceinc.com
INQUIRE FROM BRENDON IN NZ
Hi Ken, Just wondering if you would
mind sending me another copy of the four cylinder
Scripps booth steering box information. You sent me some
details quite some time ago from a parts book. I printed
it off but have mis-placed it, and my computer has had a
virus in it so I
have no records. Have just purchased a steering box and
am keen to see if
it is the correct one .Are you still planning to come to
New Zealand? Also
do you have any information that would help me to
identify a Scripps Booth
cycle car chassis? Were they made out of steel tube?
Regards, Brendon Fox - November 23, 2001
Hi Brendon - yes I lost most of my
email correspon-dence and addressees when my old
computer took a dump this pass summer. The good news is
I bought a 1918 Model G roadster several months ago. I
will be telling more about it in the newsletter next
month.
The steering gear is made by Jackson,
Church, and Wilcox Company, Saginaw, Mich. with its name
cast into the gearbox housing. This company was owned by
Buick at that time but was taken over by GM about the
time it took over S-B. Here is the Model G parts
illustration:
I will be going to Australia next
year for 2 weeks
the first of October 2002, but not sure about NZ? Both
my daughters are
getting married next years - 23 yr. old in January and
the 28 year old in
late October - so Dad will have his share of expenses
next year, and I am
also short on vacation time. In any respect, I plan to
make the trip to
Australia about every 2 years from now on - so maybe NZ
in three years?
Regards, Ken
Hi Ken, Congratulations on the
purchase of your Scripps! And the engagements of
your daughters. When you do manage to get to NZ you are
welcome to stay at our house. We live one and a half
hours drive from Wel-lington, and half hour drive from
Southwards car museum which is said to be the largest
vintage car museum in the southern hemisphere, (no
Scripps-Booths though). The steering info you sent me
confirmed that the steering box I am purchasing is the
correct one. Will have to try to find a bracket for
mounting
it to the chassis one day.
I have managed to purchase a diff and a
good front mudguard for my four cylinder Scripps
project. Have not got my 1921 Scripps road legal yet,
but have purchased another car, a 1927 Oakland tourer
complete and
reasona-bly tidy. Will be excellent for the longer car
tours.
I recently saw a chassis made of
steel pipe, it looked very veteran, was about one meter
wide by approx. three meters long. Do you think it could
be possible that it is a Scripps rocket car chassis? I
might see if I could track it down and if the price is
reasonable, buy it. It
would be a challenge to find out what it is and then try
to piece together
the rest of the car. They tell me you don't have to be
mad but it helps.
Regards Brendon Fox
Brendon - only thing I can find of
the cyclecar chassis is it had an only a 36 inch tread
and wheelbase was 100 inches. The S-B was the high-class
cyclecar of its day and would think it had a normal
steel frame. It was called an underslung chassis.
By the way my model G engine serial #
found on flywheel is SB1822. The SB prefix identifies
this engine as built by Chevrolet for S-B. For some
reason [a mis-take?} the #407 cylinder head is stamped
SB1722 on the exhaust port.
Thanks for the invite to your home,
Regards, Ken
CROW ELK-HART OR ‘13 OAKLAND RADIATOR
We have unearthed a V shaped nickel
radiator, which we think, belongs to a Crow-Elkhart
vehicle. It is square honeycomb core, made by Mayo
Radiator Company 1911. The radiator has two lower water
outlets and one top outlet. As far as we know the square
holed honeycomb core was deleted in 1912 and replaced by
hexangled core. The car radiator turned up
in Tauranga, New Zealand. We are also told that it might
be a 1913 Oakland range.
These are the Photo's of the
Radiator. As you can see, the emblem is of a round
shape. The Oakland had an oval emblem. The car is a
Crow-Elkhart; the radiator is very much alike, which is
why we think it's a Crow-Elkhart. We have brought a
Medal Detector, found nails, corrugated iron, gate
hinge, underground cables, etc. But no signs of any
other parts of a car.
Thank you, Dave Perry & Sandie
Cooper Sept 2, 2001
dovevalley@xtra.co.nz
FOUND A S-B MODEL D RADIATOR
Yes, Dave and Sandie – Laverne Burt
is correct. The radiator with its two-bottom outlet is
for the 1916-18 Scripps Booth Model D 4 passenger
Roadster or Model H Touring car that was powered by the
single casting block FERRO V-8 engine. Laverne sold his
S-B vee’d radiator [Mayo Manufacturing Co., New Haven,
Conn. Serial #121058] on eBay several years ago to a
Model T speed-ster guy [measures 21” wide, 24” high, and
about 9”
deep is the same dimensions as my 1918 Model G Roadster
which used the Chev
4 engine and transmission]. The Scripps-Booth emblem was
round (about
1 ¾” diameter).
PHOTOGRAPH OF A CE-33 CLOVER LEAF
The car in the photo is very interesting
because it is a
1917 CROW ELK-HART CE-33 Clover leaf 3 pass Roadster
with the extra cost Houk 25 ”Quick-Detachable” Wire
Wheels on #4 hubs and 32”x3 ½” Clincher tires. That cost
only $845 including the spare wire wheel. This CE-33 was
almost a direct copy of the Scripps-Booth styling that
was used from 1915 to 1919 on its Model C, G, D and H’s,
except the CE-33 used only the 3 small rear hood louvers
and supported the head lights on vertical posts off the
frame, while S-B attached the head lights to a fender
mounted bracket. Scripps-Booth had no connec-tions to
the CE-33 and thought about a lawsuit against the
CE Company. I have never seen or even heard of a CE-33
or one that still
exist? Is their one today in NZ?
Regards, Ken
FEEDBACK FROM NEW ZEALAND
Hi Ken, we have just found your
website, it is fantastic, everything we wanted to know
is there. Our measurements are 20" wide, 24" high, 8"
deep, not counting hose spigots. Emblem is round and
right diameter. The photo of the car with silver
radiator is identical to ours. Now we know what it is,
what do we do with the radiator? The radiator had a bit
of chassis attached to it, so the car must be here
some-where. We are on a farm in the Kaimai Range of
Tauranga NZ, there is a State highway in front of the
house, the car could be under the road. We found a 4
Cylinder Reo Motor in the
river. Can we keep in touch if, when we find more of the
car, or it's history?
Thanks for your time and effort. Much appreciated. Dave
& Sandie – November
5, 2001
Hi Ken, thank you very much for all
the help you have given us. Today we have found a
Scripps Booth car in Palmerston North, & 1 in
Auckland. We are going to contact them tonight, so
we can make arrangements to visit the car and bring our
radiator. We will try & get chassis & model
numbers for you.
Anything else you need from NZ please
get in touch, we will be your legs in NZ. Hope to meet
you when you visit NZ. All the best. Dave & Sandie
Hi Dave and Sandie. Do you have any
Veteran car or
old cars now? From my web site you an see I am
into the Veteran Chevrolet and got interested in
Scripps-Booths because Chevrolet took over the company
during the 1916-18 period and then turned it over to
General Motors in later 1918. My 1918 Model G has the
1918 Chev 4 engine and transmission. I also have a 1912
Little Four runabout and a 1918 Chev Model D5 Touring
that has the first OHV Chev V8 engine. We know they sold
the Little 4 in Australia from old registration records
and there is one in Queensland and one in Victoria.
I don't know if any Little 4's were
sold in NZ, but we know they were exported into England
and South Africa where there is also one today.
Keep in touch, Ken
We are reporting in. No we don't have
any vintage cars ourselves. Just the radiator.
Being a mechanic for the last 30 years, I'm interested
in vintage cars it goes with my age VINTAGE.
We have been in touch with the NZ
Vintage Car Soci-ety Head Office - Christchurch.
Regarding your request for information on Chevy's &
Scripps Booth. Scripps Booth, only 1 being on record,
Mr. Power whom you have mentioned in your newsletters,
we have spoken to him, his is an 6 cylinder which we
will get the numbers for you.
Chevy's arrived in NZ around 1915.
Due to relocation of the head office for NZ Vintage Car
Society. We can not get any
information for about a fortnight. The secre-tary
said there is a
large list of pre 1920 Chev's recorded. She needs
to get in touch
with the owners for their permis-sion to divulge
information. Could you
also attach a letter to the NZ Vintage Car Society
requesting your needs
regarding pre 1920 vehicles in NZ? We will then
post the letter to
NZ Vintage Car Society. Yours, Dave & Sandie
Hi Dave & Sandie, thanks for your
last message
- I know several of several Veteran Chevrolets in NZ
already, since some
are members of the Vintage Chevrolet Club of America
[VCCA] which I have
been a member since 1963. I presume you live near
Christchurch where Brian
Newbery is restoring the oldest Chev in NZ - a 1914
Royal Mail roadster
he imported from New York a few years ago. Brian also
has a 1615-6 Baby
Grand that was sold new in NZ in 1915.
Thanks for your interest in these
Veteran cars, Ken
WHO WAS DOROTHY VANDERGRIFT?
We are restoring a 1918 Scripps-Booth
for a customer, the engine number is Northway
DM63316. Our customer was told that Dorothy
Vandergrift had owned this car. We are trying to
track down some answers concerning this car.
If you could help, we would
really appreciate it.
Thanks, Robin - November 19, 2001
Westmoreland Studebaker
RD4, Box 444
Blairsville, PA 15717
cpiper@stargate.net
WHAT IS NORTHWAY ENGINE #DM63316?
Hi Robin, I don't recognize this car
and don't think it was ever listed on the S-B Register?
Does this car have a V-Type radiator as used on the
1918-19 Six models or does it have a flat-faced radiator
as used on the 1920-1 Model B's? Note that the Northway
Six engine used in
the 1918-9 models have a "C" prefix while the Model B
for 1920-1 had the
BD prefix. The 1920 Oakland version of this Northway
engine used the "D"
prefix with several known Oakland’s export models in
England and NZ have
the "DM" prefix with my understanding the M prefix have
a magneto. How can
I help?
I am more familiar with the pre '19
Veteran roadster models then the later 6 cylinder models
you are working on. I have a 1918 Model G roadster that
has the Chevrolet built engine and transmission.
Would like to learn more about the
car you are working on - like what body style is it? Any
other numbers you found on body or chassis? Regards, Ken
HOUK WHEEL HUB NUTS EMBLEM?
Hello Ken, Question about the Houk
wheel hubs and Scripps-Booth caps. My car has a
Scripps-Booth cap on the spare tire only. The other four
are Houk caps. What is the standard? Should I try to get
four caps with the S-B emblem? I found one man who has a
single cap with the S-B emblem and
he would like to trade for one of my Houk caps but I
don't want to do that
if it is the wrong for this car. Best regards, Tom Booth
– October 23, 2001
Hi Tom, Scripps Downing gave me a S-B
hub nut emblem off his original S-B hub nut, since he
told me he purchase 5 new reproduction S-B hub emblems
from the Williams Co. in New England [address in last
newsletter I think?]. The Williams company had/has both
the Houk emblems and the S-B emblems, which are attached
by two little rivets. I would say the Houk emblems were
used on hub nuts that the car logo wasn't available.
I finally got the Mason engine
started this past weekend in my new 1918 Model G and
seems to run fairly well. I had the car up on jack
stands with the wheels off, and put it in all 3 gears
with no noises in the trans or rear end. It appears the
radiator core and tanks have been replaced at one time
and there are no coolant leaks so far. Ken
MORE ON HOUK WHEEL HUB NUT EMBLEMS?
Tom, looking in my files, I found a
letter dated January 3, 1953, written by your
grandfather, James Scripps Booth, replying to the same
name plate question to a man who was restoring a 1916
Model D, in which he hand wrote: “Hub caps carried the
Houk name plate – not S-B.”
Now the S-B emblem I have, which
Scripps Downing told me the colors were incorrect
because somebody hand painted them, shows a black
background on the outer ring that has the Houk wording.
The next ring is painted gray, with the next ring that
has Scripps-Booth Detroit painted white with the bird
white also. The large letters S and B are red with
inside the circle blue.
I have seen what I think appear to be
original Houk #4 caps with the S-B emblem brass with an
all black back-ground like the Houk emblems are, but
also have seen a few where the background is black with
the large S and B letters are filled in red. So I not
sure what is more correct for a Model C or D? All five
emblems are missing off my #4 hubcaps for my 1918 Model
G, but by then I think the Houk name was changed to the
Wire Wheel Corp of America. Regards, Ken
KEITH A. SCRIPPS ADDED AS AN NON-OWNER
We want to welcome another Scripps
family member to our select group, Keith Armiger
Scripps, who is now living in Washington D.C. Read below
how the Internet helped this along.
Ken--Since I am keeping the
Scripps-Booth AQ book and our dealings with it a
surprise UNTIL AFTER Keith's birthday, November 20th, I
will give you the information I definitely know about
now. After this birthday, I will e-mail "introduce" you
both and he can tell you more details PLUS
a lot of interesting "tales" re himself and his family.
This is what I can share with you
today regarding my best friend, Keith Armiger Scripps,
and his family: KEITH'S --- Great grandfather: James
Edmond Scripps: 1835 – 1906 Grandfather: William Edmund
Scripps: 1882 – 1952 brother to Ellen Scripps (who
married George G. Booth, and was mother of James Scripps
Booth) Ellen Scripps's money enabled George Booth and
herself to finance their very talented son, James'
Scripps-Booth involvement in his auto-building endeavor.
Her Scripps money also assisted her and George Booth's
talents and interest in building the Cranbrook School in
Bloomfield Hills, Michigan, contiguous to the city of
Birmingham, Michigan (my former hometown). My son
attended Cran-brook School.
A bit of history: Keith's great
grandfather, James
Edmond Scripps contributed his own art collection and
funds to help found
the Detroit Institute of Arts (much as the Mellon family
did for the National
Gallery in Wash-ington). Who knows, you might want to
interview Keith for
your newsletter and/or another publication. I will help
you get more details.
Keith is an inventor and is
interested much like his great grandfather James Edmond
and his cousin (twice-removed) James Scripps-Booth in
engineering. He knows ALL of the Scripps family history,
told and untold!
Thanks again for your enabling me to
get the SB-AQ
book. Keith will really be very pleased to receive it.
Thanks so much for
your help.
Regards, Richard Stoltz – October 26,
2001
Jrichardstoltz@aol.com
Ken: my friend Keith Scripps received
the Automobile Quarterly book from me on his birthday,
Nov. 20th. Also, I had five pictures reproduced, then
framed and hung in a room at his home as another
surprise. Now many of his friends can see them, and view
the book as well. Lots of
great picture/articles (Packard, hood ornaments etc)
that make this issue
a special item. Ken - Thank you again. You helped me get
the AQ. Also, we
both enjoy reading your newsletter. Let me know when his
yearly subscription
ends. Both items (AQ & newsletter) made for a happy
birthday and a special
Thanksgiving.
Keith's grandfather was William
Edmund Scripps (1882-1952); his father was William John
Scripps (1905-1960). They lived in Detroit & Grosse
Pointe. My friend: Keith Armiger Scripps (1932 -). Keith
is a GREAT source of info on Detroit's auto barons and
their families. He really should write an "Auto Memoirs"
article. I am trying to get him to do it. He needs a
good writer to work with him. Know anyone?
Thanks again, Ken. Regards, Richard
INFORMATION WANTED ON A SCRIPPS-BOOTH
I am interested in any information
you have to offer about a Scripps-Booth listed in your
Register. It has engine number C45382. I am extremely
sure (90%) that this was my grandfather's car. His name
was Charles Kirby and in this car's notes it lists the
name Kirby. I am most
interested in:
1. Where the car is currently.
2. Who is the current owner of the car?
If this is the same car then I can
offer you more infor-mation about it.
For starters I believe his car to be
a 1918 model and I might be able to get the VIN number
for your site given enough time. I can also give you
more information on its history if you are interested.
Sincerely, Trevor Bihl - December 11,
2001
tbihl@mindspring.com
Hi Trevor, your grandfather Kirby’s
S-B touring car is now in the collection of Vintage Auto
in Fort Mill, SC.
Yes - interested - this car came from
the Barney Pollard collection in Detroit before you
grandfather got it. Would be both interested in VIN #
and the 34-S chassis # on frame at right rear well? S-B
reported that the last car built by Dec 31, 1918 was VIN
#11599. But the 1919 model year started in August 1918
somewhere around VIN #10,000 so it could be that only
VIN# 9001 to 9999 built between Jan 1918 and July 1918
should be considered true 1918 models. If you have
documentation as to what month the Kirby car was built?
I sure would be interested. Re-gards, Ken
SCRIPPS-BOOTH WITH A “T” COUPE BODY?
Dear Ken, I saw the Scripps-Booth
Register listed in Old Cars and am writing to ask you or
possibly any of your members can help me. I m interested
in early Model T Coupes 1909-1910, and I understand that
there was a man (now passed away) by the name of Webster
Knight in Rhode
Island who had a 1909 Model T Coupe mounted on a
Scripps-Booth chassis. I’m
wondering if anyone knows anything about this car, where
he obtained the
T body, and if anyone has photos of this car? I would
also be interested
in knowing something about Mr. Knight? Perhaps he was in
your club one time
or was at least listed as a Scripps-Booth owner?
Could you also send me a photo of a
Scripps-Booth and a brief history of the company? I
heard of the car but know nothing about them. Thank you
and hoping to hear from you soon, Sincerely, Don Watson,
Grover Beach, CA
From a quick Internet search I found
that a Webster Knight II was an early member of the
VMCCA and died in Providence RI in Oct
1967 at the age of 74. Does anybody remember his early T
Coupe?
FEEDBACK TO REGISTER NO. 13
Dear Ken, we enjoyed your last
Scripps-Booth Register No. 13. And you referred to our
Harrah’s “C” model three-seat roadster. Thought you
would like part of an article out of one of the Books on
the Harrah’s car. Enclosed you will find pictures of the
car as we received it from Harrah’s auction. The black
car with green wheels, the orange under-carriage and
the green motor. I also enclosed pic-tures of the new
car after 14½ year’s restoration. The motor is now blue.
The wheels are powder coated grey.
The body is Metallic Maroon with the fenders black and
pin stripped and
the under-carriage is black/ Everything has been done to
rebuilding the
engine and every part around it including the radiator,
gas tank, brakes back to original cables. It runs great
and won many prizes in Concourse shows.
You will find pictures of the new exterior, the motor
and the radiator, the
interior seats, the carburetor, the starter, and the
dash, which is all-original.
Have a great Holiday Season and our
best to all. Sincerely and smooth riding,
Bud & Grace Pope – December 11,
2000
I received a nice note of
encouragement from Forrest Wilkerson. He sent me a nice
photo of his gray painted 1916 Model C as it is
displayed in his collection. If you get a chance
Forrest, check and confirm your Model C Car No. and
engine serial number. Also check your Six Tour-ing for
the 34-S prefix chassis number?
I also received and update from Glenn
Wieties con-cerning his 1918 Coupe. Glen corrected the
engine serial number as C35541 with the #24538-6W being
the block casting number. This Model 42 Coupe has at
sometime in its life been converted from a 4-passenger
coupe to only a three-passenger coupe, since there is
only one seat to the rear on the right side. In back of
the driver seat on the left rear side is a built in
storage compartment. This car also has the later 1920-21
B motel radiator. Please confirm your frame is missing
its chassis plate that gives the prefix 34-S chassis
serial number?
AKSEL COMMENTS TO REGISTER NO. 13
Dear Ken, I would like to thank you for
your daughters engagement, and will hereby try to answer
some of your questions asked earlier. [See Register No.
12 & 13]
Concerning registration numbers: In
1916 authorities started numbering license plates for
private cars with no. 700, hereby 13 April 1916, my car
A 759. This license plate did not follow the car or
owner when ownership did change, but were taken back and
given to the next car
for registration. Therefore at random the D model
licensed a year later did
get A758. In 1920 they changed system and the
number did follow the
car until 1 April 1971. The king of Norway had no. A 1
on each car until
1971. After 1971 the plates follow the car during change
of ownership until
recycle time.
Concerning undated [1915] Instruction
Book: In my e-mail I did describe book as a 12-page
book. Correctly it is a 24 pages (copy on 12 sheets).
Concerning motor: I did receive
information from you and Alan Schier concerning details
11 February 2000, including tips of a
Sterling engine #3005 for sale. By the time I did
receive information I had
already bought two Chevy 490 engines, and delivered this
for rebuilding.
The motor was delivered for restoration during the
wintertime and should
be installed this summer. Unfortunately there were some
problems which now
hopefully has been solved.
Concerning Hub Cups: The four-hub cup
[logo plates] was all missing and now has been replaced
with duplicates of the originals. I did try to contact
Pulfer & Willaims but they did not have any left.
The spare wheel still has an original hub cup with the
Norwegian car dealer’s name impressed.
Concerning my C Model: As you
might see from
photo my car may have some incorrect details, but this
is not my main concern, and I will be redone during
time.
Instruments: Recently I have
collected correct instruments which will be installed in
dashboard.
Upholstery: I have received
detail photographs which describes the coach trimming,
seat arrangement, and further more access to the luggage
room behind the drivers seat. Seat arrangement will
probably be as is until everything else is authentic.
Luggage room: From Tom Booth I
have received
information/photo of access to luggage room from a
separate locker.
Windshield: Windshield differs
from other S-B, but was found as is in the barn.
Inner wing rear: Will be made to fit
as soon as possi-ble.
Taillight: Taillight is
incorrect and will be replaced as soon as found, still
searching.
Car top: During restoration
time.
Concerning ads, catalogue: Enclosed is the article from
The Car, June
16, 1915 and Norwegian Ads. Further more is enclosed
Sales catalog with
these artistic drawings. If this is new material I am
happy to bring it
to you.
Concerning next Scripps-Booth
Registers:
1. For a rainy day…This clipping from “The
Horseless Age” June 16, 1915 under “New Parts &
Accessories” the new staggering “Frey U-Can-Rain Shield”
is being demonstrated on a C Model.
2. Alternative energy…Photo shows an S-B with
regis-tration no.
A 797 with carbide cans as alternative fuel arrangement
during a gas crises in Norway 1917-18. These cans with
carbide did replaced fuel for at least 50 kilometers
driving. Small electric coupes made big sales even they
were expensive cars to drive and to own and could not go
by high speed. To illustrate the crises I have been told
that all lighthouses except main gate where
turned off along the long coastline of Nor-way, there
where hundreds of
them.
Concerning D Model: Enclosed is
a photo of the unrestored D model in Norway (originally
registered with no. A 758) owned by a friend of mine. As
I told you earlier this car broke a piston in 1927 and
was later stored in a barn. Unfortunately the piston did
also broke
engine block, and the Ferro engine is totally damaged.
The car is most original
including upholstery. My friend is aware of you
organization and will contact
you himself in the future. I do know he is desperately
seeking a new engine.
Concerning remains of another
S-B: In springtime I received information remains
of a later S-B model. Remains were sold at a swap meet
in Norway some years ago (4-5). Main parts torpedo,
hood, radiator shell, steering wheel… where sold to a
bus restoring project. I have been talking to the
salesman butt he has been unable to recall the buyer.
The bus restoring project seems not yet been fulfilled
while this is unknown by
pilots. The car seems to have been an S-B/GM car Series
B with a 6-cylinder Northway engine still available with
transmission. The salesman found the remains in a
wrecking yard, which now is history. If I do get new
information I would be glad to inform the register.
Lately I received information of an
S-B model G. The owner did find remains (photo) as a
stationary engine. Remains are as you can see radiator,
hood, Mason Motor and front frame. Stationary engine has
been used on his father’s farm and now been restarted.
Id number on firewall is missing; motor id number will
be searched for. The owner will present
pictures later to my address. Un-fortunately there are
no other remains of
the cars.
From Tom Booth I have received copies
of S-B news-letter No. 5 and 6. I do look forward to
your posting of early newsletters on the web site. I
would be most obliged if you could send copy of parts
list and instruction manual 1916 (48 pages).
In mid summertime 2001 there will be
a major VC race in Norway to celebrate the first
automobile tourist Mr. Bedouin from Nederland’s visiting
Norway 100 years ago. I hope to enjoy this race with my
S-B. Yours faithfully, Akel Erlend Kopperud – 26 October
2000
A 30 YEAR SEARCH ENDS ON THE “WWW”
Sep 5, 2001 Subject: 1915-1916-1917 Scripps-Booth
Hello, I have just received a
Scripps-Booth and I am interested in selling it. I know
the car is a C-model, and it good condition with some
minor blemishes. I don't know where to find the serial
number
or model number so any help locating it would be greatly
appreciated. Furthermore, I am interested as to what the
average worth of this vehicle may be. I have contacted
museum curators and they didn't know much about the car.
I thank you for you time; any information about the car
would be greatly appreciated. Frank, Bakersfield
California
Hi Frank - Good to hear from you. I
checked to see
if any of the on-price guides cover that far back - and
they don't. Do you know anything about the history of
this car? The reason I ask is, there was
a 1918 Scripps-Booth Model G Roadster for sale with a
photo printed in the
HORSELESS CARRIAGE GAZETTE May/June 1983 by a Bill Gran
from Bakersfield. This car was an older restoration in
good condition, five new Firestone NON-SKID tires, Houk
Wire Wheels, new clutch, mechanically sound, with good
paint. I have never heard of another Scripps-Booth in
the Bakersfield area and have not heard anything from
anyone who owns this car today? I get up to the
Bakersfield's HCCA Swapmeet every February for the past
6-7 years and ask around there if anybody remembers an
S-B? Could this be the car you know have? A Model
C and G appears the same. The major external difference
is the G has the gas tank under the frame in rear, while
the C has the tank in the cowl in front of dash.
As far as values, I do have a 1915-18
Chevrolet Model H/F/FA Royal Mail Price Guide [1998],
with the Scripps-Booth C & G roadster being about as
a desirable car.
Year
Condition
6 - 5 -
4 - 3 -
2 - 1
1915 800 2500 4200 9200 16100 23000
1916 650 2199 3599 7000 13300 19000
1917 640 2150 3600 6800 11900 17000
If your car were built before Jan 1,
1916 it would
be worth what the 1915 models are because the Horseless
Carriage Club would then recognize it. Do you have a
clear title for this car? The Title should have the
engine number on it? The Model C engine # is located on
the right front side of crankcase at about the base of
#1 cylinder while the G should be stamped on flywheel.
I live in Monrovia - only 2 hours
south of Bakersfield and could come up some weekend to
see your car and tell you more about it. I have been
looking for a 1918 Model G to purchase. I am
particularly fond of the 1918 Models, because I have a
1918 Chevrolet Model D-5 "EIGHT" Touring car already and
would like a smaller roadster built that same year. Also
the 1918 Model G was built during the same period that
Chevrolet owned the Scripps-Booth Company. So I am
hoping that what you have is a Model G and not the Model
C. The Model C or G nameplate is on a plate nailed to
bottom of right seat kickboard - but is often missing.
Please let me know what you find? Gas
tank location? What type of starter? When I can visit
you?
Frank then called me on the phone
Thursday night and said his car is that same 1918
Model G with the Non-Skid tires. I
asked when I could inspect it, and he said Sunday - so
we agreed to meet
at 10 AM in Bakersfield. I called Pat McGowen to see if
he wanted to check
out with me an S-B with a 1918 Chev 4 engine, and Pat
said "You Bet!"
HAPPY HOLIDAYS
Well, my Model G Saga will have to
wait till later. Remember, the Scripps-Booth
Website is access at:
scrippsboothregister.com
|
|
