COMMENTS TO AKSEL QUESTIONS IN NO.
12
Comments on Instrument Panels: The question if the
dash should be covered with leather or polished mahogany
wood is an interesting question. Upon looking though my
files, I found the following references:
THE LIGHT CAR for January 27, 1915 reporting on
the New York Show to its British readers, states that,
“All the inside of the doors, even the dash, is lined
with padded leather, which gives a great feeling of
warmth and comfort.”
THE AUTO MOTOR JOURNAL for June 17, 1915 shows an
illustration of the interior of the body. It reports,
“The interior paneling is upholstered right up to the
dash, in which are let, one on either side, two large
pockets for maps and such-like small articles. Polished
walnut beading and instrument board add the necessary
high-class finish.
THE LIGHT CAR for September 22, 1915 printed a
photograph of a 1915 Model C with English license plate
EM500 that shows a quilted leather dash. THE AUTOCAR for
November 20, 1915, printed the a photo of a 1915 Model C
with English rego DU6952, showing its interior and
states: “In place of the polished dash, it is now
quilted, square tufted, leather covered, this applies to
the instrument board, scuttle sides, inside of doors,
etc.” The door pockets appear to be open on top with no
hinge flap covers. The leather covering extended over
the top of the doors in place of the wood door molding
used on the early models. That is, the tops of the doors
were now trimmed with leather in place of the former
wood trim molding.
The Scripps-Booth Sales Brochure (6”x7”, 24 pages,
undated), that was probably printed in mid September
1915 for the Fall Selling Season, covers the 1916 Model
C’s that started with Car No. C3101 with Sterling Engine
serial #3001 [3” bore open valve]. Illustrated on page
8, is the interior through the open door. On page 9, it
states: “The exceptionally careful finish of the
upholstery and interior leather work, including the
square tufted instrument board.
THE AUTOMOBILE for January 6, 1916, reporting on
the New York City show cars, claimed that “One
alteration is abandonment of the quilted leather finish
of the cowl board in favor of the more customary
polished wood.”
The later Sales Brochure titled, The Luxurious
Light Car As Originated by Scripps-Booth (5”x6˝”, 22
pages, un-dated, printing by the Cadillac Press), that I
have is a later edition of this brochure, that must have
been first printed in 1916. My version appears to have
the first 16 pages of text still applying to the 1916
Model C, while the page 17 Speci-fications for the Four
Cylinders was updated from the Model C to the 1917 Model
G. For example, it describes “The high-speed motor with
its enclosed overhead valves with outside adjustment…”
This statement applies to the Sterling engine serial
#10,001 up, but not the 1917 Mason engine listed in the
Spec. page that had 3 11/16” bore cylinders. The
Road-ster was priced at the Model G $935 cost and not
the $825 Model C cost. This brochure states,
“Beneath the base of this wind screen and at the rear
finale to the hood is a leather-covered instrument
arrangement.”
THE LIGHT CAR October 31, 1917 article was on a
handsome coupe body by the Belgravia Coachworks on a
Scripps-Booth chassis. It referred to “A polished
mahogany instrument board is fitted to the
scuttle-dash…” I think this dash was added by the body
builder just like the windscreen was also “framed in
narrow polished mahogany.”
In conclusion, it appears the early 1915 Model
C’s, perhaps the first 400 built, had padded leather
dashes. Then between C401 and about C2000 at the end of
July 1915, the polish walnut dash was used. About August
1st the quilted, square tufted, leather covered dash
commenced up to December 31st, 1915 to C5000. The
improved Model C’s that were specially built for the
1916 Automobile Shows for January through March
(estimate C5001-C5025) changed back to polished walnut.
The production Model C’s that started in April 1916 came
again [I believe] equipped with the plain black leather
dash.
Comments on Instruments:
The Steward speedometer used in 1915 is its Model 100.
The dial face is 3 inches with a nickel-plated bezel
ring. The season and trip odometers are located below
the miles per hour speed drum. The dial face for 1915 is
silver plated and has the code letter “G” stamped in the
face just above the word ‘patented.’ The trip meter is
reset by pulling out and turning the wheel on the right.
The speedometer is set off with a polished nickel flange
that has an opening for the reset wheel. For 1916 and
later, the face was black with white letters, and had
the date code of “H. In 1918 the “K” date code included
the month, such as K-3 for March 1918.
I have photos that were taken in the early 80’s of
the Harrah’s Museum Model C that was built about June of
1916. This was a low 6,000-mile car, and it appears the
dash had the original leather covered dash. The Car No.
plate is missing, but with a Sterling Engine #10681, I
would estimate this car would have a serial number
around C5800. The nameplate on the dash under the choke
knob is that of the Southern California distributor,
R.C. Hamlin.
The center mounted Ignition OFF-ON Switch for the
1916 Model C’s was made by Briggs-Stratton with the 4
button light switch made by Connecticut Electric and
Tele-phone company Note the B-S switch cover originally
was painted black.
Of course the system voltage was changed to 6
volts from 12 volt at Car No. C5001. I presume your
C3266 was updated to 6 volts when the Mason engine was
installed and the ignition switch you got from Hershey
is this type of ignition switch? The 1915 Model C’s with
the Bijur Starter/Generator used a combination
ignition/starter switch, with the early switch only two
positions with the later [C1101 up] being a three
position with the center position “Idle” being added.
Nickel-plated mounting flanges are also used for
the ammeter and the oil sight gauges shown. I have no
informa-tion who the suppliers of these gauges are?
Comments on Upholstery:
There is some question as to when the 1916 Model C’s
started production, but most sources claim it was at Car
No. C3101, that I figure must of been built towards the
end of September 1915, with the last Model C built
before the end of December 1915 to be C-5000. I estimate
your Model C, Car No. C3266, was built about the first
week in October 1915 as a 1916 Model. In our S-B
Register, we list the 1915 models by year of
manu-facture, since our Horseless Carriage Club uses
this as the cut-off date.
The improved Model C with price increased from
$775 to $825 was first announced at the NYC Automobile
Show the first week of January 1916, starting with Car
No. 5001 up, with Sterling Engine #10,001 and up, with
enclosed valves and 6 volt Wagner starter and
generator,
The two photos I have of Car No. C6426S, that I
estimate was built during the last of August 1916, shows
the original 1916 interior, with the seats to be that of
the diamond button style used on the Model C's. These
Janu-ary 1916 improved models had plain leatherette door
panels with pockets with flaps that fasten down on each
side.
The driver's side toolbox compartment did not
start until about Car No. C5160 in mid April 1916 when
the battery was relocated under the driver's seat from
the trunk. Several previous owners have copied this
compartment and added it to earlier bodies because they
liked this feature and wanted to update their cars.
Wheels Comments:
Dick Minnick probably purchased the reproduction Houk
No. 4 hub emblems (not NOS) with the Scripps-Booth logo
from the popular East Coast swapmeet Emblem and
Nameplate vendor, Bill Willaims. His firm is called
Pulfer & Willaims, and he does a mail order business
at P.O. Box 67, Hancock, New Hampshire 03449.
Bill took over the making of nameplates and
emblems from the famous Southern Californian collector
and ven-dor, Harry Pulfer in the early 70’s. I first met
Harry in 1963 when I bought a 1923 3-port Olds cylinder
head and exhaust manifold from this elder
gentleman.
Windshield Comments: The later Model C Parts Price
List believed printed in mid 1917 shows the 15C47
Windshield for the first 5000 Cars and Overlapping
Wind-shield #15C447 on cars above #5000. The early
wind-shield’s upper glass was 10 x 35 3/8 inches with
square corners, with the lower glass measures the same
width and 8 inches at its highest part. I gather the
improved overlap-ping type referred to the upper class
overlapping the lower glass by a small amount, so rain
spray doesn’t leak by the air gap that the early models
had.
MORE FEEDBACK TO REGISTER NO. 12
I received several letters and updates from Alan
Schier this pass year in which he wrote in part:
Thanks for writing and showing so much interest in
the obscure S-B history. It seems that it's been
you and me, mostly, trying to keep the interest going. I
was glad to hear of Aksel in Norway finding a "C" and
showing so much interest in making his car as original
as possible.
I researched my ads and owners handbook the
morning after I received your letter. Our S/N 2525 has
the diamond pleating "padded" on side panels and
instrument area. It is of a cloth backed
leatherette material. The seats are top quality
deep grained leather, deep rolled and tucked Turk-ish
style. This I was told was to absorb the bumps and
jars as in carriages of earlier times. My
info comes from the 1914 Model "C" ad in Literary
Digest, reprinted in Car Topics, the ad with the stream
lined fenders. It shows the diamond pleats.
I believe that Mr. Gears' car was not diamond pleats on
the dash area but leatherette fabric. The side
areas on my seats are the cloth materials also.
The model "G" ad seats seem the same. The amp
gauge was made by Roller Smith of Bethlehem, PA.
(Bethlehem PA is a stone throw from us, a 30-minute
drive) My car also says BIJUR system on it.
I have collected extra gauges without the Bijur
markings.
I have contacted Jerry Cook who owns the
ex-Ruggles car. I have pictures of this project,
which I received in January of '91. It seems I
know more about the car than Mr. Cook, as he has no
interest in these old cars. I gave Mr. Cook an
approx. value of the S-B remains, and he is willing to
sell it to me. I am considering buying his project
to speed up restoration on my car. One of the pieces of
this project is a restored engine. As I have
a cousin in Missouri who has been begging us to visit
and Mr. Cook is only 45 minutes from my cousin, I'll now
be able to do two things at once, and have free lodging
to boot! I have been working now for 2 months for
Continental Airlines out of Newark, NJ, so getting there
will be easier than driving. Can't beat those
arrangements! I will need to sell some other car
first to make the purchase happen, so it could be
another year or so before I am able to take possession
of Mr. Cook's project.
Mr. Geers' frame remains seems to have been a "G"
110-inch frame. I was wrong in saying that it was
a "D" frame. And it is so much heavier than a "C"
frame. I am sorry to say that I cut up the frame
rails for scrap, but saved the spring castings, axles,
and brake cross rods. What didn't make sense was
the width dimensions of the splash apron. The body
door is much larger also. I have turned up no info
on a V8 runabout. Neither Mr. Jensen nor Mr.
Kesling ever got back to me so I decided to dice up the
frame. Now I have had second thoughts, lots of
spare pieces.
I would be interested in copies or trading
literature for the 1915 "C" parts list. Regards, Alan
QUESTION ON HOUK WHEEL HUBS
I bid $1350 on a set of four 23" Houk Wire Wheels,
two hubs, and two caps off of a Scripps-Booth this
morning, and lost out in the last minute when a Model T
Speedster guy outbid me and got them for $1375. I can't
tell if these are left or right hubs? Are the
Scripps-Booth hubs the same for the front and rear? Can
you tell if these are front or rear hubs?
I have thought about installing Houk 23 inch Quick
Detachable wire wheel on my 1912 Little runabout. This
would replace the wood spoke 24" Wheels with 30 x 3"
tires with 30 x 3˝" tires, which should give a better
ride. Chevrolet actually offered as a factory option in
1914-15, Houk 25" wheels for its 32 x 3˝" tires.
My good friend Tom Meleo has Houk 25" wheels with
oversize 34 x 4˝" tires on his 1918 Chevrolet Model D5
Touring and I would like to find a set of Houk 26"
wheels and hubs/caps for 34 x 4" tires for my '18 D5
also. An-other Chevy friend is planning to have the
front and rear #4 hubs for the 1917-22 large Chevrolet
cast since they are almost impossible to find
anymore.
Have you found any Houk factory literature?
Ken
TITLE FOR THE 14th MODEL C BUILT?
I have a Certificate of Title for a 1915
Scripps-Booth roadster, dated September 19, 1925, in the
name of Harry G. Humphreys. Engine #525F - Serial # 0114
- Horse-power 18 - power gas - style roadster - year
1915. On the back it has been assigned to Fred
Duesenberg (of the auto fame), by Mrs. H. G. Humphreys,
and has a notary public signature and seal. It has a
penciled address change at the top, and it is in very
good condition. It has been folded, but it is very clear
to read. The paper is old but in good condi-tion. I
believe it is the original title. Jim
TITLE LIST BLOCK CAST NO. AS ENGINE NO.
Thanks for the title info and the engine serial
number. Unfortunately, the #525F is the early Sterling 2
7/8" bore cylinder block part number that is cast into
the side of the block. The "F" stands for the FERRO
foundry in Cleve-land, Ohio who cast the block. This was
a common mis-take made back then because the engine
serial is often hard to locate since it is stamped into
the block on the right side at the base of the front
cylinder and is often covered over by paint.
These Sterling engine that went from #1 to 3000
were used in the 1915 Model C's that were built from
Feb. to September 1915. I believe your title for #O114
is also a mistake and should have the prefix "C" for
Model C, so should be #C114. It is estimated that first
batch of 25 Model C’s built in Feb-Mar 1915 were all
built for the large city Automobile Show - so I bet Car
No. C114 was the Indianapolis Auto Show Car and the
first Scripps-Booth in Indiana?
It is interesting that C114 was still on the road
10 years later in 1925 and Fred Duesenberg would want
it? Ken
HOUK WIRE WHEEL COMMENTS
Received your note on Model C title. It may be of
some use on Ruggles - Cook car if I or someone else ends
up with that project. Mr. Cook said there is no
known s/n & doesn't believe there is a title.
I still must get back with Mr. Cook.
You missed out on some rare Houk stuff. Some
#4 parts were used on Dodge, Monroe & others. The
rear hubs on my early C rear are square shaft axle type
tor-qued tight with nut. A raised cast # on each
one matches my C parts book, most definitely S-B
manufactured or made for them. Check sequencing
#’s in S-B parts book. Left p/n hubs have
clockwise threads and right hubs opposite, to self
tighten when driving forward. The spare
cap I believe is a left. The front hubs use an
inner bearing larger than the outer and can slide off
once the nut is removed and thread direction determines
left or right. Don't know about casting #, they
may have been univer-sally supplied by Houk. The
believed "G" rear swapped from Mr. Geers' car uses
tapered axles with key-way and may have been supplied by
Houk by that time.
I have a bit of history that Sue researched from
the Buffalo library on Mr. Houk & Company. I
believe it became the Buffalo Wheel Co. and later Wire
Wheel Co. of America. The Pfund car had the alloy
wrench for caps with Houk cast name on it. I
purchased a steel Buffalo wrench at pre-'15 meet at
Rhinebeck, NY a few years ago, best I can find so
far. I have also purchased a Houk spoke wrench,
name stamped on it.
On the subject can you tell me if any of the S-B
tools supplied as in Model C parts book or other models
have the words Scripps-Booth on them. I've been
unable to find any from people selling car tools at
Hershey, etc. Alan
SWAPMEET AND LITERATURE REPORT
We had a nice time at the Macungie, PA car show
last weekend. We go almost every year, as it is about 50
minutes away, west of Allentown. It
has a large antique toy show Saturday morning, which we
spent about 3 hours at. The car show is 1000 plus cars
and trucks. It is big enough but not too big. I bought a
1915 piece of literature I didn’t have or seen before
for $35 – “ouch.” He had a large $100 piece
on the 1915 C but held off on that one. Also he had a
1920 and 1922 Scripps literature.
I have determined my wire wheels should be claret
lake red instead of white as other ads for the C’s
showed. This is why I kept finding red paint around my
spoke nipples as I reworked them. The ad
shows the stream-lined rear fenders and $775 for the
list price and also coupe picture and
specifications.
He also had a Crow Elk-Hart literature that looks
like a Scripps. I still think there is a link in the two
companies with the Sterling Motor Co. and being sold in
London together - the Morris London link. Cars were
brand im-ported to England in 1916 during the war, and
then in 1918 were exported.
A guy that sells antique tools at swapmeets has a
picture of his Dad’s Model C with exposed push rods
engine he raced at Paterson & Ho-Ho-Kus, NJ dirt
tracks in 1921 to 1923 eras. He says I can come and see
the picture but his Dad is dead now. He used a magneto
on it like the English magazine ads had conversions for
the Scripps.
Enclosed is a duplicate Model C picture Gary
L. gave me showing radiator spurting over and guys
arm around the lady driver-“Armstrong Heater?” Also
enclosed is a copy of a J.S.B. letter dated January 3,
1953 from my collection. Thanks for the 1915 Model C
Parts List copy.
Alan
OBITUARIES
William E. Swigart Jr., a pioneer in the antique
automo-bile hobby, died this pass July in his native
Huntingdom, Pennsylvania. His Swigart Museum is the
oldest antique auto museum in the United States having
been started in 1920 by his Dad.
Mary Isham reported her husband Oren, a collector
of antique auto engines from Enumclaw, Washington, died
this past year and she needs to sell off his large
engine collection. Oren had two 1916 Scripps-Booth
engines and transmissions units mounted on display
stands, one a Sterling 4-cyl. serial #11829 and the
other a FERRO Model 13 V-8 serial #FS73. Both have found
new homes.
CHANGE OF OWNERSHIP
Richard Penaluna in Spokane sent me a nice note
and photo of his 1920 B-39 Touring he got from Al
Hillstrom. Richard worked on this car most of the
winter polishing up the trim and repainting it from the
old blue body to dark green that “should last
another 80 years. The green is almost black -
looks really green in the noonday sun.”
Richard Penaluna email:
Mmpdlp@email.msm.com
SON NOW OWNS CAR AND FOUND ANOTHER
Sorry about the delay in replying to you. I have
been having medical problems, but am improving now.
Please amend your records to show Peter J. Templer (at
this address) as owner of the Scripps Booth. Peter has
also purchased another Scripps Booth as follows:
Year 1920 or 1921. Radiator flat. Wheels wooden
artillery spoked. Chassis: no number discernible. Front
and rear axles with wooden spoked artillery wheel hubs.
Gearbox. Engine, Northway (I think) number BD5027-2X.
Steering column, pedal assemblies, various brackets etc.
Peter is overseas at present. When he returns we'll try
to find more numbers of the first car.
Regards Ken Templer.
TOM BOOTH CHECKS OUT ENSTINE’S CAR
The Scripps-Booth is still owned by Ray Enstine.
He has about 12 other cars and is trying to reduce the
size of his fleet. I got to see and drive the car
on Monday, No-vember 22, 1999. It runs fine as far as I
can tell. The engine was rebuilt in 1994 by a mechanic
in the Water Mill, NY area. I did not get a chance to
check the serial numbers. The car is in nice shape with
a few blemishes and body scrapes. Looks like minor
bodywork has been done in the past. The jump seat is
missing, no wipers (I don't know if there should be
any), no side curtains (I don't know if there should be
any), no S-B wheel covers, speedo not working, etc. I am
seriously interested in the car. Best regards, Tom Booth
TOM BOOTH BUYS HIS DREAM MACHINE
I am happy to say that my wife and I have
completed the purchase of the 1916 Model C formerly
owned by Ray Enstine. The car is still in New York but
will arrive here in Michigan sometime in the next few
weeks. Tom Booth
LITERATURE QUESTION ON WEB SITE
Hi Stuart, Thanks for leaving a message in my web
site guest book. Yes, there are separate Scripps-Booth
In-struction and also illustrated Parts List for both
the 1915 Model C and the 1916-17 Model C Roadster. The
1916 Model C, starting at Car No. C5001 and up, is
covered in the: BOOK OF INFORMATION, MODEL C, 4-Cylinder
Roadster, 48 pages. INSTRUCTIONS for WAGNER STARTER and
GENERATOR, SCRIPPS-BOOTH CARS, FOUR AND EIGHT CYLINDER,
26 pages Parts and Price List, 4 Cylinder, Model C, 48
pages.
Do you have a Scripps-Booth or are you thinking of
buying one? I usually make free copies of the manuals
for new owners who can provide a Car No. and Engine
serial number along with a photo and description of
their car. I have been researching S-B for about
35 years and am still looking for the right S-B for me
to buy. Are you the Stuart Shuster of the GM Truck
Designer fame? Regards, Ken
FINE TUNING THE MODEL C AT HOME
Thanks for your prompt reply; yes I worked in the
Truck areas at the Design Center in Warren. I was
the assistant Chief Designer for all GM truck interiors
for approx. 10 years. One of my last projects was
the interior for the Cadillac Escalade. Now I am
retired, however I am back on contract working with our
educational relations group.
My interest in Scripps-Booth is associated with
Tom Booth who is also in your Register. He just
received a 1916 SB Model C from a man in the East
Coast. He had a problem with the accelerator pivot
near the steering column, fixed that, but now engine
will start, but stalls upon trying to drive. I will
forward our transmissions to Tom; He will be interested
in this info.
One item of interest is, I have one of the last 69
Corvair Monzas owned by Ned F. Nickles [GM stylist] who
among other cars designed the original Corvair under
direction of William Mitchell. The Corvair remains
in original condition as Ned customized it. In
those days, when they received their buy cars, they
would send them down to the styling shops to try out new
ideas, etc. Best to you, Stuart
FOUND CAR AND ENGINE SERIAL NO.’S
I would describe the car as a “driver”. It
runs fine and I drive it around the area when the
weather is nice. The car was restored in 1972 and
now has body flaws such as small nicks, dents,
scratches, etc. as you would expect. The top is
fine but without side curtains. I replaced the
rear window glass that was broken. The jump seat
is missing, the speedometer does not work, the ignition
switch has a key slot but a key is not required, the
clutch pedal does not return fully unless the floor
board is removed, etc. The engine was rebuilt in
1995 and runs nicely. I am not complaining and
think the car is fun and nice to have. I will work
on these items that need attention as time per-mits. The
engine number is 10943C, which is cast into the block on
the right hand side. The body number is C5793S.
There is an oval plate nailed to the heal board
below the right front seat.
The door sill plate appears to have “Scripps -
Booth” embossed on it but has been painted and is hard
to read.
Best regards, Tom Booth
A NEW OWNER FROM NEW ZEALAND
Glad you found us on the Internet. I always get
excited when we find a new Scripps-Booth car to add to
our Register - especially from overseas!
I have attached an updated Register and Owners
Addresses for your use until the annual newsletter is
sent out in December. You might have to edit it a bit
if you print it out on your odd A size paper. Let me
know if you have any problems downloading these
word.doc files? I will add your engine Serial # when
received - it should have a BD prefix. Did your car
have a Scripps-Booth Nameplate with the CAR NO.? [like
30000]? Also send me your mailing address for the
list.
Below is a message I received from my friend Jim
Hickman concerning an S-B in Te Aroha. I believe the
man's name is Johnson, but I have not yet tried to
contact him.
Just returned from a car rally in New Zealand
and located a man who said that he is the owner of a
Scripps Booth (unrestored). I believe the car to be a
1915. The man's name escapes me now, but he can be
contacted as follows: Te Aroha Lawnmower Service,
Whittaker St., Te Aroha, New Zealand.
This man owns the shop. He also told me (or a
friend of his told me) that the car will have to be
re-bodied. I only found the car because he had the
ignition switch in his shop window. He did say that he
had owned the car for some time and that he hoped to
get around to restoring it sometime. Hope you can use
this information. Jim Hickman
Perhaps if you get the chance, you might try and
get this car's engine # and what model it might be?
Would like to add this car to the Register too. Ken
WELCOME BRENDON FOX FROM NZ
I was happy to discover that someone had a web
site on Scripps Booth cars. I have been involved in
Scripps Booth restoration and searching for parts on
and off for the last 19 years. I have a 1920 Scripps
Booth Model B Tourer which is almost road worthy. This
car has been a major project and has involved
reconstructing the timber frame by using the old body
panels, which were only good for pat-terns. Every
panel on the car has been made by hand and is as close
as possible to the original patterns. We tried for
years to find another Scripps Booth of similar model
in order to obtain photos of the original interior and
confirm the odd dimensions. If you would like I will
send you some photos and a brief history of the
restoration.
The Scripps Booth that your friend would have
seen last February was probably the unrestored 1919?
Scripps Booth in Te Aroha, North Island, New Zealand,
which is missing all it's body panels except for the
scuttle. I know of a 1919 model roadster, which 10
years ago was in Auckland and owned by a Mr. Power.
That is the only other restored Scripps in this county
that I know of or have heard of. Also know of an early
4-cylinder model, which has been rotting away for the
last 20 years but is unobtainable. I have heard that
this car is reasonably complete and have taken photos
of what is left of the chassis, front axle, diff and
wheels. I plan to keep trying to obtain this car, as I
have plans to put one together. So far I have a 4
cylinder model chassis, wheels, a few motors, a
radiator and a rear body panel for a roadster.
I would like to correspond with people that may
have spare parts for sale for this particular model (I
maybe able to swap some of the spare parts that I have
collected over the years), and would also like to
correspond with people that own the same model Scripps
Booth as my Tourer. I also have a 1920 Oakland model
34C roadster which is virtually identical mechanically
to the Scripps.
I also know of a 1920 Scripps Booth owned by a
Mr. Les Francis in Melbourne, Australia. This car is
restored, but like mine has been a major
rebuild.
I will look up the original engine number of my
car so you can add it to your register. I hope you
find this infor-mation useful. I look forward to
further correspondence. Keep up the good work. Brendon
Fox
REQUEST FOR ENGINE SERIAL NUMBERS?
I would be interested in finding out the engine
# and any casting numbers or casting codes that are
from the other 4 cylinders engines you have as well as
data/numbers from your Oakland so we can make sense of
these numbers?
There are only 7 1920-1 Model B cars known - I
have CC Richard Penaluna this note since he has an
email address and might be able to give you
information on his Model B.
See my last few Newsletters on my web site for
what few spare parts that might be available? We knew
about a Les Francis with a Six Touring in Victoria but
lost contact about ten years ago and thought he died?
Do you know his where about?
I don't own a Scripps-Booth but have been
looking for the right Model G since 1972 to purchase.
My interest in S-B stems from the Chevrolet connection
- the Model G is a lot better looking than the plain
Jane Chev 490 roadster! I currently own two Veterans
Chevs - a restored 1912 Model Little 4 RHD runabout
and a 1918 Model D5 "EIGHT" Touring which I should
finish the restoration of by next summer. I attended
the Vintage & Veteran Chev Club's tours in
Australia in 1997 and 1999 and plan on their tour in
2002 - so might stop off in NZ for a few days or
longer in about two years.
FOUND RHD WITH MAGNETO ENGINE NO.
Just a quick note to let you know I have found
the engine number from the original block for my car.
The number is MD32771, and also I see you have listed
the car as having wood spoke wheels, but it is
actually on wire wheels. They are Buffalo, beaded
edge, jelly mold, 24-inch wheels. Due to the state my
car was in before restoration started, the only number
we could find anywhere was a number stamped down the
side of the wood work of the driver's door, it was
1885. I don't know if this is a part number, or if it
is of any other significance. I haven't looked for the
Oakland numbers yet, but will contact you when I get
time to check them out.
Have you heard from Les Francis yet? I phoned
him a week ago and informed him about your site. He
seemed keen to look you up. I will also contact Mr.
Johnson for you and find out if Mr. Power up in
Auckland still owns his Scripps Booth Roadster that is
restored. We haven't heard from the other Ken yet, but
I am keen to make contact with him especially to find
out if he has a spare ring that screws on to the fuel
tank to secure the petrol gauge for my car. Do you
have his email address? Brendon Fox
FOUND POSSIBLE BODY SERIAL NO.
Thanks for your input and serial number. Are you
sure your engine number prefix is "MB" and not "BD”?
All the other S-B engines for 1920-21 I have heard of
have the "BD" prefix. The Oakland serial # chart that
was printed in the S-B Register Newsletter Number 11,
indicates the late 1919 Oaklands used a "MC" prefix,
but I have never seen a "MB" before? The #1885 stamped
in the wood is proba-bly a body serial number with
yours as the first body number reported.
Interesting about the Buffalo Wire Wheels -
sometime in the early 20's Buffalo took over from the
Wire Wheel Corp. of America who made the Houk Wire
Wheels for the earlier S-B that used a pin driven hub
and switch to the House type driven hub that the
Buffaloes used. The only other 1920-22 car that has
wire wheels is Car No. 25961 and they appear to be pin
driven Houk type, but I think they might of been
switch from an earlier chassis parts car? Did your
Buffalo's come with your car from the factory you
think, or were they installed later?
I am looking for a set of #4 Houk 25" or 26" to
install on my 1918 Chevrolet Model D V-8 because I
like the way they look.
If your engine is MD32771, it falls within the
range of a 1920 model serial number so I will shift it
between BD22798 and BD37719 on the Register when I
update it next. I bet you can find the block casting
date code of 20 for 1920 somewhere on your block? What
engine do you have in your S-B now?
It is exciting you got hold of Les Francis, but
he hasn't contacted me yet. Thanks for contacting
other owners. I don't think Ken Blair has email?
Regards Ken
MORE ENGINE NO.’S WITH COMMENTS
I am quite sure that the original engine block
for my car has a "MD" prefix, I haven't looked for any
casting date codes on it yet. However I have some
other engine num-bers from other engine blocks I have
which have the following numbers:
[Okay - It could be that the prefixes were
different because of export models that could have
indicated RHD and/or magneto equipped. Are all these
S-B and Oakland RHD in NZ and some have
magnetos?]
BDM51192 - This I believe came from Scripps
Booth. [This is normal S-B prefix but with a "M" -
does if have a magneto?]
MC81553 - Unknown. [Both S-B & Oakland used
"C" prefix engines for 1918-19 - does this one have a
mag?]
C42803 - This engine is restored ready to go
into my Oakland and I believe it came from an Oakland
Tourer.
DM8925 - And has a casting date code of 1-27-20
and I believe this is the original engine block for my
1920 34C Oakland Roadster. The original chassis number
is 12629034. [The Oakland used the D prefix for 1920
engines - does this engine also have a magneto? From
old rego records in England there was an Oakland
chassis # 130866 34 that had an engine with a serial #
of DM7756 that was first rego in January 31, 1923.
This at least shows the "DM" prefix was used in both
NZ and England in early 1920.]
The Motor that is currently in my Scripps Booth
has no alphabetical prefix and simply 24538.5. I
appears that the number has not been tampered with.
[This is a mystery to me? I presume you found this
number stamped in the same location you found your
other serial num-bers and you have enough blocks that
you know what you are looking for? So this shouldn't
be a casting number or date code? However, the owner
of a 1918 S-B Coupe reported his engine is: 24538-6W
so I'm at a lost what these two almost identical
numbers are? Does this replacement engine have a valve
cover? Could it be an early 1918-9 engine?]
I also have a 4 cylinder Chev type motor that I
pur-chased on the understanding that it had come from
a Scripps-Booth, the number is R1582582, Casting
Number 344624 /12. [Both the serial # and the 344624
cast number proves this is a 1925 Chevrolet engine. My
1925 Chev 4 engine is serial # 1729277 with cast #
344624 /10 with a date code D 8 5 (April 8, 1925) with
a cloverleaf cast mark with the letters SPC within the
cloverleaf indication GM's Saginaw Prod-ucts Co. FERRO
was also used as a foundry during this period. The
1917-9 S-B Model G that used the basis Chev 490
engine/transmission, except it had a jacket water
heated intake manifold, aluminum valve cover, and
aluminum push rod/lifter covers (lower half). The
serial # was different then a Chev 4 but still stamped
on the flywheel like the 490's.]
In regard to wheels I have a Scripps Booth sales
bro-chure featuring flat radiator models which have
pin drive wire wheels. My Buffalo jelly mold wheels
were original for the car, and Les Francis also has
the same on his car. I see in my 1920 Oakland parts
brochure that the jelly mold wheels were listed, but
not the pin drive ones.
Would you like to send me more information on
the wire wheels that you are searching for, I assume
they are pin drive, but are they beaded edge or
straight-sided rim? In either case they are very hard
to find as people are reluc-tant to part with them,
but I will see what I can do. As a last resort if we
could find some centers, the rest of the wheels can be
manufactured here in New Zealand. [I am currently
researching the Houk Wire Wheels for a story for the
Chev Club and will add more later. The type I am
looking for are 26" demountable rims with locking ring
for Straight Side 34 X 4" Tires. The # 4 Houk hub has
6 drive studs on 6 1/4" centers. A friend who has a
1920 Chev FB is going to cast the correct Chev front
and rear Houk #4 hubs [same as my Model D5 EIGHT], so
perhaps the cheapest in the long run is to buy 5 good
Houk #4 wheel hubs and have the wheels remade with new
rims, lock rims, and spokes in NZ. I have yet to find
any #4 (or #5 hubs) 26" wheels, and all the smaller
25" wheels I have seen are rusty junk with bad rims
and missing lock rims, and the vendor still wants
$300-400 each for them. This would sure give me a good
reason to spend a holiday in NZ to pick up a set of
wheels to take home? I know I am going to Australia in
Sep-tember 2002 for the VVCAA Anniversary Meet.]
Recently I managed to find some rear mudguards
for a 4-cylinder model, and I am still looking for
various other parts such as steering column and
gearbox, diff and front axle. Do you have a parts
brochure featuring a steering box, etc for the
4-cylinder model? Regards Brendon Fox [Attached
is the page that illustrates the Model G steering -
all in pieces. Good Luck, Ken]
MORE ENGINE COMMENTS
All are right hand drive New Zealand motors and
all were magneto equipped, except for the 2 Oakland
motors.
Re: Block Number 24538.5: All of the reasonably
complete engines that my father and I obtained for the
Scripps had no valve covers and had exposed push rods
except for the engine from the original car which also
had a one piece exhaust inlet manifold. So there is a
strong possibility that it is from an earlier car.
However, I cannot rule out the possibility that we
obtained this engine block simply in its bear block
state. I recall that there is a differ-ence between
the engine sumps where they seal around the rear main
bearing? This one seals across the bearing cap as
opposed to sealing around it. I don't know if there is
a difference in the engine blocks to make allowances
for the different bearing caps that accommodate this
type of sump? The casting number on this block 1-13
C-3575-W-4
Perhaps these blocks without alphabetical prefixes
were supplied as replacement blocks in the early days?
Re: Chev Motor: Thanks for confirming my
suspicion. I have two 4 cylinder motors with
Scripps-Booth cast into the side of them in the
amongst the rusty treasures. I will send you the
numbers when I gain access to them.
Re: Wheels: Recently I had a brief encounter
with a friend that has searched for similar wheels in
the past. He informs me that there were Houk wheels
produced with 6 studs and 6 and a quarter inch
centers, but the centers still varied according to the
size of the wheel. He seemed quite sure that you would
find good wheels in the USA, so next time I see him I
will ask him to be more specific. In the meantime I
will look for the wheel manufacturer’s ad and will
send it to you. In the meantime I found some photos of
my Scripps restoration and of Mr. Johnson's car which
I will send to you. Also one of my car restored.
Brendon Fox bdfox@voyager.co.nz
ROADSTER CRUISES FLUSHING TOWNSHIP
By James M. Miller / Special to The Detroit News
Flushing residents
occasionally have the chance to see something very
rare: a Scripps-Booth on the road. Barry Jensen, who
lives near the city, said when the mood strikes, he
uses the 1917 roadster for routine errands to town. “I
drive it around once in a while. The other day I took
my son to the pool," said the Flushing Township
resident, who owns Davison Road Glass in Flint. There
are a few other Scripps-Booth cars in Michigan, but
most of them are in museums. Jensen said from reading
club lists, he believes his family's car is the only
one licensed in the state. The Scripps-Booth company
built cars in Detroit from 1912 to 1922. Jensen's car
is a three-passenger roadster. It is an export model,
so the driver's seat is on the right, slightly ahead
of one passenger's seat, with a hatch behind the
driver's seat serving as a glove box. The second
passenger perches on a small jump seat that is mounted
underneath the dashboard on the left side and swivels
under the dash when not in use.
The Scripps-Booth car was designed
by James Scripps Booth, who was related to two
families important in Michi-gan newspaper history. He
was the son of George G. Booth, founder of the Booth
newspaper chain, and the grandson of James E. Scripps,
founder of The Detroit News. During the cyclecar fad
of 1913-15, Booth built a small cyclecar called the
Rocket, a two-passenger ma-chine with the passenger
sitting behind the driver and V-2, 10-horsepower
engine that powered the rear wheels using a belt. Then
he got the idea for what he called a luxurious light
car, and began to base his advertisements on the image
and quality, when many other manufacturers were still
selling based on facts and figures. The 1917
boat-tailed roadster has a cowl that is much more
sculpted than some of the other designs of the time.
It has a small four-cylinder overhead-valve engine,
rated at about 25 horse-power. Jensen said the Model C
was the first car to have the horn button mounted in
the center of the steering wheel, and the first to
have the spare tire fully mounted on a wheel, rather
than a separate tire that had to be mounted on the
wheel when needed.
He said his father, Robert, bought the car in
1972, and they restored it together. “I was in high
school at the time," he said. "He wanted something
different, something un-usual and it is that. He
didn't know anything about the company. He'd never
heard of it, so he bought it." The car was reasonably
complete when they got it, he said, and came with new
fenders that had been made for the previ-ous owner.
The Jensens found a man trying to sell some
Scripps-Booth parts, and bought the entire package.
Rob-ert Jensen died in 1991. "I took him for a ride, a
little while before he died, but I don't think he ever
drove it," Jensen said. Jensen said about three years
ago he decided the old car was due for a new paint
job. “In six hours I had it completely stripped, ready
to paint," he said. "But it took me 50 hours to put it
back together."
Jensen said he enjoys the unusual Scripps-Booth
and has taken it to the Old Car Festival at Greenfield
Village three times. It was one of the feature cars at
the Sloan Summer Fair this year. Like many cars it is
a simple design: The gas tank is under the cowl, so
the system works by gravity feed and there is no fuel
pump. There is no water pump because the car uses the
"thermo-syphon."
The car uses two quarter-elliptic springs in the
rear, and they carry the rear axle behind the end of
the frame.
Many cars in the 'teens had their own shift pattern or
layout for foot pedals. The clutch pedal is on the
left in the Scripps-Booth, the brake is on the right
and the accelerator is in the middle. Scripps-Booth
was an independent com-pany until it was bought by
Chevrolet in 1917. The Scripps-Booth brand gradually
became less distinctive, with an Oakland chassis and
Northway engine, and the brand was discontinued in
1922.
PARTS WANTED FOR 1919 SIX-39 TOURING
I was wondering if you knew of someone that has
an engine hood for sale that would fit my car? The one
that went with my car was stolen not too long ago.
Also, I am interested in buying the following parts:
1) Replacement front and rear fenders. 2) New
Tires. 3) Louvered engine hood cover. 4)
Sales Brochure. If you know where I can get the
above-mentioned items I would appreciate you letting
me know. Thanks again for sending the news-letter. It
has been a valuable source of information!
Jacob F. Kratz email:
jacob_kratz@hotmail.com
PARTS WANTED AND FOR SALE
In the HCCA Gazette for May/June 2000 is found:
Wanted: 1915-6 Scripps-Booth Chassis and/or engine
& transmission. Can be in virtually any condition
– Don Schep-pelman, 429 S Meade, Flint, MI 48503 –
email:
Bradentonrentals@aol.com
For Sale: 1915 Sterling 4-cyl. engine with starter
generator. Running unit when removed from
vehicle, $2000 – Jeffery Vogel, 14 East 90th
St., New York, NY 10128 – 213-360-1216 or
email: paezival@pipeline.com
This Sterling engine is a 1916 model built
towards the end of September 1915 using the improved
3” bore block that had the casting number of 645F,
starting at serial #3001. This engine was
removed from an Isotta Fraschini is serial #3005 and
has a water pump added.
MORE GOODIES FOR SALE
I am sending details of the following for your
upcoming Scripps-Booth newsletter: The original,
one-of-a-kind signed artwork master of their radiator
emblem logo to be used in this unique Moto-Meter, May
7, 1921. See lengthy historical background, together
with list of much other original automotive and truck
logo artwork, on our site at
http://cohascodpc.com/automobiliana.html
Photocopies of artwork by mail only, $4.00 each,
de-ductible against purchase. $345.00. Hubcap.
Aluminum, 3" diameter. Later style (plain threaded).
Usual service wear, but attractive. Two "SB" initials
probably repainted inside $145.00. Radiator emblem.
N.O.S. $170.00. Owners manual. 1919, 6 cylinder. Cover
edges considerably mouse chewed, text satisfactory.
Ex-N.A.C.C. Library, then William Todd Collection.
$80.00. Wiring diagrams. Vari-ous. $5.75 Cordially,
Bob Snyder, Cohasco, Inc., P.O. Drawer 821, Yonkers,
NY 10702, 1-914-476-8500, Fax 1-914-476-8573,
http://cohascodpc.com Est. 54 Years
PARTS LIST INTERNET LEAD
I've got original Scripps-Booth
Parts List Booklet, 70 pages. I wonder what it's worth
and who might want it? Stewart Gray
stewbie1@mindspring.com
You request was forward me since I run the
Scripps-Booth Register in which we have about 50
members.
The Parts Lists worth vary in price from:
1915 Model C $40; 1916 Model C $35; 1916 Model D $60;
1917 Model G $30; 1918-19 Six Cylinder Models $25;
1920-21 Six Cyl Models (B Series) $20; 1922 Six Cyl
Models (F Series) $30. I would be willing to buy your
Part List for the above models for the price stated.
Hope this is of some help. Ken
SEARCH FOR DADS 1917 SCRIPPS-BOOTH
I was recently prompted to try the 'net to
search for our father's 1917 S-B roadster. Our dad
died in 1958 at age 44, just before we were to start a
restoration on his car, preserved (sort of) in his
home town of Cedar Vale, KS in a barn since his being
drafted for W.W.II. With his brother Dick, of Wann,
OK, we had recovered the car during a visit from CA in
1957. It was in generally poor shape, which
disappointed Dad, because he had left it with the shop
teacher in the local high school where he was
teach-ing English (he was later Principal.)
Before we could transport it to Alturas, CA,
where he lived, he succumbed to a heart attack.
Regretfully, we weren't well off, and agreed to sell
it to an OK acquain-tance of Uncle Dick's who was
going to restore it. When we looked the old fellow up
in 1984, he'd become a bit senile, and couldn't recall
who had bought and restored the car, though he was
sure it was a museum. Of course, we'd seen the
Roadster black & maroon that Bill Harrah had back
in the 'Seventies, and photographed it. A local
re-storer, Duane Schotthauer, had mostly redone a
later coupe, back then, also. Recently, our Mom
received a 1937 Pittsburg KS newspaper with an article
on the S-B, as a pet vehicle on
campus of KS State Teachers College, with it's history
from new (just as I recalled Dad telling us), as well
as an original dealer brochure in fair condition. This
was from the widow of a college pal of his who was
noted as co-owner.
I suppose deep in my heart, I'd like to think
that 1.) Dad’s S-B still exists, 2.) that it might be
available, and - faint hope -3.) my two brothers and
myself might be able to afford it
I'd be glad -- technology permitting -- to send
you a the
scan of the aforementioned literature, if you like.
Alas, we don't know his VIN or anything but perhaps
the color (blue and black -- though it may have been
painted) and that he had to replace the original
vee-radiator with a conventional flat one due to
damage by the original owners. Though I was only
twelve when I last saw it, I can still recall many
details of the sad little car in Grandma's barn.
Thanks for your attention, and any help you can
render. I did print out your 2000 register of cars.
Wick
WAS IT A MODEL C OR G?
Thanks for your most interesting message.
Perhaps you can describe the literature you have first
since I might already have it. Was the 1937 article
about the same car you Dad later had? When you say it
was a 1917 Roadster - was it a Model C or a Model G
that used the Chevrolet engine. The Model G also had
the fuel tank in rear of car and used a vacuum tank on
firewall while the Model C had a dash mounted gravity
feed fuel tank.
I do not know of any S-B that came from Kansas?
But am sure there are still S-B out there we do not
know about? Regards. Ken
ENGINE WAS A FERRO
Thanks for the quick S-B reply! The newspaper
article was indeed about dad's 1917 roadster, while he
was at Kansas State in '37. He owned the car for over
twenty years, was the second owner, and knew all its
history up to then. When it was sold, it probably was
sourced from the Bartlesville OK area, not KS. The
finder gave me a ride through Bartlesville with my
uncle back when I visited in the summer of '62, but
not in the Scripps, rather a Model T phone booth coupe
he'd restored. He'd sold the S-B before that date “to
a restorer (or museum)”
No, I have no sure way of telling what model it
was, as so far we haven't found any photos of dad and
the car. I don't believe it had a Chev 4 however, as I
seem to recall an I-head and I think it said FERRO. I
had some stock 8CM Mercury heads for a '51 Ford that
were branded Ferro, back when. It had a little
boat-tailed trunk. We all recall the 'starting
strangler' and four separate light switches, however.
As I recall, it was a dead ringer for the car that
Bill Harrah used to have, except for color. Anyhow, I
sure liked looking at the photos in your Register
files. I included an S-B roadster in a novel
manu-script I'm writing (being squired around by two
Army Air Service officers in 1922 in San Antonio) just
because of the interest I have in it. We're having a
family reunion up by Mt. Shasta this weekend, and the
brothers will be tickled to know I've heard from
you!
I believe there is an S-B owner in Paradise CA,
possibly the coupe that Scholtthauer restored back in
the early seventies. I'll try to call him, if
so...both my married kids live in P-dise. Thanks
again, Wick
STERLING BLOCK WAS CAST BY FERRO
Yes, it sounds as if you Dad's S-B was a 1917
Model C with the Sterling engine, which was a small
OHV engine with a 3” bore. Sterling used block and
head castings from FERRO (as did Chevrolet in the
1923-28 period) and FERRO supplied the small 2 main
brg V-8 engine for the S-B Model D 4 pass roadster -
which was the first mono-cast block and also OHV. My
Chev V-8 is a 2-piece block that is bolted vertically
in the middle.
Yes the S-B Coupe in Paradise is a 1918 Six
cylinder that has been in a fire since it was
restored. I will print you letter in the next annual
newsletter in December. I would be interested in a
copy of that 1937 newspaper clipping to include also
in the newsletter. Regards Ken
MERRY CHRISTMAS & HAPPY HOLIDAYS
There was enough material submitted this year to
fill another 8 pages. It will have to wait
till next year. Remember,
the Scripps-Booth Website is
access at:
scrippsboothregister.com
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